Friday, July 28, 2006

Champions League draw, outgoing transfers, and the comment section.

The draw for the Champions League has just been made and we'll be facing Fk Ekranias from Lithuania or Dinamo Zagreb from Croatia. It's highly likely that Zagreb will beat Ekranias [given that they're 4-1 up], so it looks like we'll be having a trip to Croatia before we hope to get to the group stages. A tough tie I would say, not as bad as things could have been, but not as good either. Although if we can't beat the likes of Zagreb, you would have to say we don't have any chance in the competition this year. The first leg isn't far away - 8/9 August, and I should imagine Arsene is contemplating who's acutally going to play in it. I should imagine that Thierry will be rested, and obviously big Phil will be injured. Will we see Rosicky in action one wonders? Will Ashley still be at the club? Will we have any other new signings available? Also, does anyone fancy a trip to Croatia?

Qui sait? Arsene. Pourquoi? Parce-que Arsene sait tout.

I should imagine that Tel will be rested, and Adebayor/Van Persie/ Aliadiere will be relied on to get our goals. Not sure whether to be too optimistic about that.

Elsewhere, we've shipped out half the youth-team. Well, 3 of them. Ryan Smith's attempt to prove himself in the first team has not lasted long, and he's already been sold to Derby. A good deal for them no doubt, but a disappointing end to his Arsenal career. Muamba and Seb Larsson have also been put out for a loan in Brummie-ville. Hopefully this will actually just be a case of getting experience, and not a lengthy denouement to their careers at the club like most loans seem to be. I was impressed by Larsson last year - especially at his willingness/ability to do jobs around the park, and Muamba is apparently quite the prospect.

No news of any incoming transfers, and the speculation regarding Ashley's transfer has also slipped under the radar. So for some light entertainment, voir ici. It's chocolate coloured. ok?

Finally, a quick word about the comments section. My last two posts have racked up a rather staggering 170+ comments. Much of this seems to have been caused by rather inflammatory debate in the comments section - rather than my own statements - which has descended to a rather banal level of name calling. Now, I don't really have many options with the comments section. I can either turn it off (don't want to), make it for members or signed up people only ( a little elitist), or leave it as it is now (anarchy). I'm tempted to leave it as it is for now, in the hope that those who come to the blog can choose not to read the comments, or skip/past ignore comments they don't like. I'd really like to make this a blog for everyone, so all i'm asking is for some mutual respect in the comments. And if you do start seeing your comments deleted you've done something pretty wrong: racism, extremely offensive comments, or, and most often, Spuds fans just leaving abuse [you'd be surprised how often this happens].

So let's all try and make a nice Gb.

UPDATE: Cashley, Arsenal, and Chel£ea are in talks at present over Cole's future. Only informal talks mind. Perhaps they met at a London hotel for a coffee...

82 comments:

chzberga said...

I'd rather have a more testing tie to get us going than an easy walkover which doesn't tell us anything. Hopefully we can hit the ground running. I've got a feeling that this is gonna be Van Persie's season.

gazzap said...

goonerboy. dont you have the power to remove comments that are out of order or racist or whatever?

Goonerboy said...

I think VP needs to really come through this year, otherwise Arsene may consider getting a new young striker in.

Deise Gooner said...

Yeah a tricky tie alright, but i would be confident of beating them. I hope the first leg isnt too soon for some of the World Cup players. VanP, Reyes and Ade need to chip in with goals in to double figures to take burted off Henry. I have no doubts about Dumpling and i feel along with Hleb they will be very creative from the wings.

Deise Gooner said...

Yeah a tricky tie alright, but i would be confident of beating them. I hope the first leg isnt too soon for some of the World Cup players. VanP, Reyes and Ade need to chip in with goals in to double figures to take burden off Henry. I have no doubts about Dumpling and i feel along with Hleb they will be very creative from the wings.

Deise Gooner said...

oh sorry bout that, didnt think the first comment went through

Gunner Fan for life said...

If Cole goes, we need to buy some one (let the rat go anyways)..that a lot of experience that will leave arsenal in one season..with the retirement of DB10, i am anyhow feeling low..
I have full faith in wenger and am pretty sure that he will pull something out of the bag..

East at the Grove said...

Even without Henry and Ljungberg in Zagreb we should be able to rely on Adebayor and Van the man to nick an away goal. Lets be honest, these 2 players would probably walk into most starting 11's.

Gelbs said...

Back four of;

Eboue, Toure, Cygan, Flamini?

Brilliant :d

Deise Gooner said...

First choice back 4

Ralph - Toure - Senderos - Clichy

Brillianter !

Anonymous said...

you aint got no english players now cole is leaving that is a disgrace

Anonymous said...

I think we'll get tested soon enough, not to mention that Zagreb is probably one of the tougher teams we could have drawn. Oh, and players coming back to fitness as deise said and also a fair bunch (Freddie, Phil, Lauren, Diaby, Clichy) missing through injury.

Well, at least one of the young strikers has to step up and cement a partnership with Henry. A little variety is good and all, but this partner-by-committee just won't do the business.

Gelbs said...

Has to be a Spurs fan about lack of English players.

East at the Grove said...

If our last few English players are an example of how they behave then I dont want any more either.

Back up your view with your suggestions on which English players have the temperament, quality, and value for money for a club like ours and we may consider your objection.

Anonymous said...

yer i am a spurs fan and i understand how u say cole has behaved coz that is disgraceful but surly u have to admit if ure in the english league then u shud have a certain amount of english players........ saying that u have got walcott but i cant see him breaking into your first team this season

Gelbs said...

I'd still see Connolly given a chance over Cygan anyday. And even a Brit like Muamba who gone out on loan over Song. British players are overpriced etc. But when you look at some of our average foreign imports, you have to question why they are playing instead of our English talent. Don't care what anyone says. And people say bad things about English players fuck you over. That isn't entirely true. I don't think Pennant was that bad, and would of liked to seen him at Arsenal still. Better than Reyes. Certainly no worse. But look at Ray Parlour? English and came through the ranks and was a competely loyal servant and battler we lack.

tata said...

last time i checked theo was english.

Gelbs said...

Plus with the exception of Gerrard, it is pretty depressing if Cole goes to Chelsea as that would then mean, they all have the best young British talent around. All in their mid 20s. Who said money doesn't buy you happiness?

East at the Grove said...

Look at the way Carrick has behaved.

Spurs took a gamble on him and have turned him into a pretty good holding midfielder, 15m quid???????

If he was French (for example Diarra) you are probably looking at nearer 5m.

As you Spuds are always pointing out we dont have the funds to pay 15m on a pretty good holding midfielder, English or otherwise. So Carrick and his disloyalty and the problems with Cashley Hole are 2 fine examples of why we haven't been able to buy English players.

Anonymous said...

yes i did say about theo but i cant see him breaking into ure first team just yet and being a spurs fan im not going to lie we do have some good english talent in defoe lennon its a shame carrick is going but we still have huddlestone to take his place, that is all i am saying to play in the english league there shud be a rule about how many foriegn players are aloud
bolton are just as bad

tat said...

Pennat as a player was ok and i even liked him. but the attitude problem had to be put into context. as a coach you would not want a player you feel will disrupt your team or not tow the line. and have to admit have not seen much of muamba but going on loan is not necessarily a disadvantage. (is he a physical player, shield the ball etc?)

Gelbs said...

Pmsl. Here we go again! Completely irrelevant talk to what the heading was about. All because a Spud fan came on here and started us off!

East at the Grove said...

Gelbs, don't you think times have changed since the likes of Ray Parlour??. Manchester Utd. tried many times to buy Tony Adams in the early 90's and he chose to stay. The difference now is that the game is so money orientated that many English players don't seem to have any scruples. The fact that SWP sits on the bench at Stamford Bridge collecting his 70-80 k a week proves that.

Deise Gooner said...

Are Spurs not on the verge if selling Carrick ? For 15 million too. Talk about overpriced. The english lads who are good enuff will make it into the team. It does no harm to go on loan for experience - which is what they lack. Sometimes it does look like Wenger prefers overseas youngsters to english ones, but then again we dont see them from day to day and cant comment with knowledge on their abilities.

Anonymous said...

yes i did start this off but atleast to all of ures credit u are having a positive debait about this not talking aload of rubbish and some of u are even agreeing with me so it cant be that bad of a comment i made

Goonerboy said...

Gazzap - I do have the power to remove comments, but I only tend to remove racist, bigoted, or extremely offensive ones.

I was just hoping to maintain the decent level of debate we have on here, instead of it perhaps falling into abusive name calling. But I'm fairly confident that won't happen anyway.

And Gelbs - Pennant wasn't that bad? He played with police tracking device on his ankle. OK player, but played too much off the field for Arsene's liking. Myles on ANR was right the other day about Bergy's testimonial being an example to all aspiring Arsenal players: you have to be family men, and dedicated to football. This is why I Arsene is, on balance, willing to let Ashley go.

Gelbs said...

I know times change. Just making a point. Not all English players are arseholes. Take Gerrard as an example. He came close to joining Chelsea but opted to stay loyal to Liverpool at the very last minute due to his love for the club. One player that didn't jump on the band wagon.

East at the Grove said...

Whilst I would agree that Lennon and Defoe are good players I think 7-8m for JJ is a joke. At best he is a very average player. There is talk that Defoe is angling for a move and who says that if Man.Utd. or Chavs come in with 15m for Lennon he isn't going to do the Frank Boff.

Gelbs said...

I know. But if Pennant is that bad, why did Liverpool just sign him? Albeit not worth 6-7 million. Pennant would of been sold anyway regardless of his off the field antics. Just as Upson wasn't misbehaved but was behind in the pecking order behind Cygan. Think that says it all.

Anonymous said...

yes i do agree about 7 million for jj was a joke but to defoes credit he has come out and sed that he does no want to leave and is happy so if he stays least he has stayed loyal and lennon signed a really long contract not so long ago so i think he will stay its just carrick but if he wants to go and be disloyal to us exactly like cole is doing to you then let him we will se next season wont we

East at the Grove said...

From what I heard Gerrard only changed his mind because of intimidation and threats to his family.

East at the Grove said...

I guess we will spud.

It is refreshing to have an articulate and sensible debate without all the childish sillyness.

Well done.

Anonymous said...

thanks east at the grove it sounds silly but im only 16 but i thought i wud raise the point with you gooners just to see your sensible views on the point and to be fair you have reacted in a good way by answering sensibly well done to you to

Deise Gooner said...

Pennant and Upson - yet to make international level , probobly wont either

Senderos took Upsons place and he has just played world cup

Hleb/Rosicky/Freddie who play where Pennant plays also all internationals

Anonymous said...

would any of those players get into the england team tho? to be fair

Deise Gooner said...

Englands midfield in the world cup was so disjointed and kept losing the ball, so id say why wouldnt they !

But to be playing against other international level players on a regular basis surely raises your game

Do Pennant and Upson have quality to step up to international level ?

Anonymous said...

People often forget (or are unaware of) a piece of FA legislation that is prohibitive to english youngsters. English clubs can only sign English players for their academies who live within a fifteen mile radius of the training ground. So we don't have the pick of England at all, we only have North London and Hertfordshire. These restrictions do not apply in Europe, so any club with a serious youth policy has to have a predominantly foreign base. This legislation was brought in because 30 years ago people were horrified if players turned out for their teams who weren't locals, it sounds pretty stupid to us now that 30 years ago United wouldn't have stood for a scouser (Rooney) in their team. 30 years on we're having the same arguments, but with a different geographical boundary. Which really proves how pre historic all this "you must have English players" etc debate is. In 30 years, my children/grandchildren will find it amazing that we even debated this kind of thing, as it is a regressive small minded way of thinking.

East at the Grove said...

I might be biased but I think most of our players could get into the England team (had they been English of course). With the exeption of centre halfs, but that is more to do with England's strength in that department than our weaknesses. In saying that Toure for me is one of the best players in the world currently.

Gelbs said...

Upson was capped for England

Anonymous said...

in the eng team, i think senderos is more than capable to replace Rio, Hleb for Becks any day, Freddie runs more than Fat Lamps, who in England can score more than Rosicky???...

Deise Gooner said...

Yeah thats correct Anon 12:23. So it stands to reason that we will see more overseas youngsters at the club, and therefore more likely to find quality from a bigger overseas group that a much smaller english group. Statistically how many youngsters from any club make it into their first team. Most need to move on to smaller clubs with only the outstanding ones making it into the big clubs first team.

Gelbs said...

Plus Cygan is about the only player in Arsenal who has been there for a few years and never been capped by country lol.

East at the Grove said...

Goonerboy, a thought that had occured to me whilst busy at work, ahem!!

What would be your thoughts on Kolo playing as a holding midfielder if we bought another good central defender and Senderos was fit??

I think that he has been magnificest the last 2 seasons and now with his experience of playing in the Premiership he would make a great midfield player.

Look at the attributes he has and tell me differently.

Pace : In abundance
Tackling: Superb
Shooting: Best I can say is powerful.
Attitude: Second to none.

So I ask you the jury, if we cant get this holding midfielder we have been looking for since Paddy left why not go for our Kolo.

Obviosly we'd need to buy a very good centre defender to replace him though.

Deise Gooner said...

What do you reckon our team will be to face Zagreb - with or without any new signings ?

Anonymous said...

I think Kolo could do a good job in midfield, bit I think at the moment he is definitely one of the top 3 defenders in the world and is indespensible there. It's unfortunate that people outside Goonerdom don't seem to mention Kolo in the esteem he deserves. But I guess that's what you get for not being a tireless self promoter (Owen, Ronaldinho, Gerrard) with a million product endorsement deals. I have a suspicion that Lauren might revert to midfield this season with Hoyte as back up to Eboue.

AsianGunner said...

latest news is that Chavs and Arsenal are now negotiating a transfer for Cashly...if we can get Gallas in exchange, put Kolo in midfield with Cesc, and Senderos can partner Gallas...world class...

Deise Gooner said...

Kolo is now our defensive rock he has to stay where he is. Lauren i feel could make the change back to midfield - he played there before Wenger converted him. He strong, has pace, can tackle and is comforatable on the ball. He also takes no shit from opposition.

East at the Grove said...

Is Lauren due back soon??

Last I heard was that the injury was far more serious that originally diagnosed and his career could be in doubt?

I must admit I'm still not sold on Eboue's defending capabilities.

goonermtl said...

For a holding midfielder, Pace, Tackling, Shooting and Attitude are indeed fantastic qualities.

But your ball winner, by definition, has the ball a lot, either taking it from the opponent or getting it from defense.

So he also needs a lot of intelligence on the ball.

I'm not saying Kolo doesn't have it, just that it is not the first thing you would say about him, and I think it's one of the first things you should be able to say about your holding midfielder

Odhis said...

Am Arsenal fan and still think we need to have a cocktail of English lads. We are an English team. We cant dispute that. Buy Curtis. After all we havent spent much this season. We are the only team that dont spend. I thought we made some money from the CL.

Anonymous said...

gelbs, what are you on about Pennant, mate? Wenger was about to offer him a new contract, but Pennant got drunk and crashed his car. That was the last straw. If you haven't noticed, his old club, the one with Upson in it, just got relegated. I don't see any clubs beating a path to sign him. And if you recall, Wenger wanted to keep him. Upson just didn't want to wait another season. He had to play NOW! Just as Bentley had to play NOW! You see a pattern here?

In contrast, most of these foreigners are grateful to be playing at a club like Arsenal. Kanu was happy to sit on the bench for most of two seasons. Lauren gave up international football to concentrate solely on his Arsenal duties. You never hear a peep out of Gilberto. Or Flamini. Or Larsson. May have something to do with the greater wages they earn than just about anywhere else, but it then just goes back to the point that most English players are overpriced and overpaid.

Aaagh. Reckon Titi will go, but won't play the full 90. Unfortunately it's looking more and more likely to be Toure-Cygan in the centre.
Almunia
Eboue-Toure-Cygan-Flamini
Hleb-Gilberto-Song-Reyes
Cesc
Henry

Rosicky to replace Reyes.
With Diaby, Freddie, Clichy, Phil, and Lauren out, our options are significantly limited.

East at the Grove said...

I wonder if Arsene is holding out on Davis to see if we can get Gallas.

I think Gallas would be a fantastic signing even for the short term to help bed in some of the youngsters. I think Gelbs mentioned yesterday some of the experience we have lost this season and I think it paramount that we have some older, wiser heads in the first team.

Goonermtl, I think that Kolo has the intelligence on the ball. You only have to see the way he drives out of defence. Also, that is a quality that would come with the experience of playing in that position.

Gelbs said...

Thing is Upson left January 2003. Cygan was bought in the summer of 2002. He shouldn't of been bought period whilst Upson was still here.

Deise Gooner said...

Wasnt Cygan player of the year for his club in france the previos 2 years. Seemed a good buy at the time for a couple million while Upson pogressed. If he had bided his time for 1 more season it may have been him in Senderos' place. We will never know. I reckon big phill will bo top drawer dogged defender a la adams/keown

East at the Grove said...

Cygan's first game was fucking magic. I think it was an away game in Europe (Auxerre or PSV perhaps) and he had a blinder.

Gone downhill from there slightly however.

Deise Gooner said...

Yeah i remember thinking at the time hes like a while Sol ha ha . Cant fault his attitude, just his pace, the slowarse.

East at the Grove said...

Senderos' awareness worries me. Perhaps it will come with age. Another concern is the amount of injuries he gets. For a big, young lad like that to get so many knocks is concerning. His arse has flattened more grass than Jordan's, and that is some feat.

Goonerboy said...

Cygan was player of the year in France the year before he came.

East at the Grove: Kolo would make an excellent midfielder, but he wants to play centre back. That's why the club gave him no.5. I think Arsene may have thought about playing him there but Kolo only wants to play cb; I don't think he even wants to play r-b as was mooted when him Campbell and Phil were jostling for the two centre back positions.

We should leave him at cb as he is top class there; he should be made vice-capitano also. I think Arsene will buy another cb before the end of the window.

Odhis said...

I share the concern of the lack of English players in the Arsenal line up.
We always buy expensive players. Wenger bought Reyes and I don't think he is any special. Wenger is known to nature players.
Let him buy two or three good English talents, mould them into the Arsenal system and see if they will fit in.
Wenger is a French coach in England and so he owes something to England, the country that let him earn his daily bread.
Let's us buy a bit of English. Please buy Curtis.

East at the Grove said...

I would make Kolo vice-captain too. In fairness he'd probably make a fucking good captain, but AW wouldn't want Thierry chucking the toys out of the pram.

Any team I ever played for had a defensive player as captain because they could generally see the whole pitch and I would concur that it is the best theory.

East at the Grove said...

Wenger owes England fuck all!!! He is paid by Arsenal and his duty lies with us. Most proper Arsenal fans would say that he has been a revolutionary for this country's football and they should give him an award for bringing English football into the 21st century even before we reached 2000.

The man is a fucking legend to Arsenal and only 20-30-40 years down the line when Arsenal are still a self-financing machine will some recognise the great man's work.

How long did it take to acknowledge Herbert Chapman's services to the club???????

Odhis said...

Cygan was best player in French league. That must be a ops league.

Anonymous said...

Arsene extended the careers of Arsenal's back four which benefited England, he also bought training methods and dietary regimes out of the dark ages. AW owes England fuck all. And I'm sorry, he always buys expensive players? 500k for Lehamnn, Nothing for Cesc, 200k for Kolo, 200k for Senderos, £3m for van Persie, £3m for Vieira, £7m for Henry (surely the bargain of the century with Kolo), 200k for Clichy, £3m for Petit?

Odhis said...

Arsenal club is in England not France or anywhere else. The fans are English. Period

Odhis said...

Arsenal club is in England not France or anywhere else. The fans are English. Period

Deise Gooner said...

He is known to gamble every now and then. Reyes and Theo for example, but always expensive players ! i dont think so. Personally it has to be quality over nationality. And also at a reasonable price. 10 mil for davies is a tad expensive to say the least.

East at the Grove said...

I think you forgot Anelka's 22.5m profit anon 1.49. Petit and Overmars collectively 20m odd profit. What price Fabregas now??

Wenger makes the odd gamble with an unknown which doesn't pay off but I think if anyone sat down and weighed up all of his dabblings in the transfer market would be hard pressed to be critical.

Deise Gooner said...

And where do you suppose we get all these top english players to fill the team with. Didnt you read the earlier comments about the acadamy reqruitment being restricted to local areas. And the overpricing of english players. We aint got money to burn odhis.

Odhis said...

What does that mean. Are we a poor club or we are simply mean????

East at the Grove said...

Yes odhis the board are mean. They have just moved us into a beautiful new studium to keep us competing with the world's best in the future whilst holding on to the best player in the world and keeping pretty much the whole team that got us to the C.L final last season. On top of that my season ticket cost far less than a mate of mine that has one at Upton Park and another at W.H.L.

We are so hard done by it is unreal.

Odhis said...

Why were we not bidding for Carrick?

Odhis said...

Anybody out there knows Kolo's current earning? The guy should actually be next to Henry.

Deise Gooner said...

Did you just crawl out from under a rock odhis ?

Odhis said...

Real gooner.

gazzap said...

Goonerboy, the french league is A LOT slower than the prem. Cygan can manage when the pace is slow but because he has no pace when someone goes past him he has no chance of recovery.

team to play zagreb will be:

Almunia
Eboue Toure Cygan Flamini
Hleb Cesc Gilberto Reyes/Rosicky
Adebayor Henry/RVP

Not sure whether wenger would go for rosicky or reyes on left and whether henry will even travel let alone play.

East at the Grove said...

I take it that you think Carrick is worth 15m the odhis. I wonder if you would be so bullish if it was your money. Do we have to keep going over the same thing?? Carrick is not worth 15m quid end of. Do any of you actually think about what nationality a player is when you are there watching a game?? Does anyone celebrate a great tackle by Toure or a wonder goal by Henry any less than you would if the tackle was made by Tony Adams or the goal scored by Ian Wright. For fuck's sake, once any player has that red and white shirt on they are a gooner and that is the only thing we need worry about.

Anonymous said...

We're not bidding for Carrick because he's grossly over rated/paid. In one sentence odhis, you complain about the lack of English players, in the next you're saying Kolo should earn as much as Henry. But odhis, not only is Toure not English, but, gulp, HE'S AFRICAN. I've posted much on this stupid subject about English players and I can't be bothered to repeat them. So I suggest you read my comments above at 1.49 and 12.23, if you can find a SENSIBLE answer to the questions posed other than your xenophobic tabloid bullshit I suggest you don't post without at least qualifying your statements.

Anonymous said...

Davies has extended his contract with the Baggies. Nice move by Robson. It makes him all the more expensive in wages and transfer fee. But of course, the downside is that if he turns out to be an overrated pile of poo then they're stuck with him.

If Djourou gets fit we are looking at:

Almunia
Eboue Toure Djourou Flamini

as our starting back four against Zagreb (probably).

If Cygan plays I will groan. The only way I'd want him in an Arsenal side is if we are forced to, and then I'd play him as a sweeper. He might not be so exposed in that position.

But then again we don't know about Mexes....

Not to mention any of the other hundreds of players AW has no doubt got his eyes on.

As for anyone bemoaning Pennant, Liverpool are mad to buy him. Destined for another spell in nick if you ask me.

Socrates' gadfly said...

I think the problem is that Wenger is starting to believe his own reputation. He's probably aware of hundred of players who can do a job for us, but he doesn't buy.
He's resisted padding out the squad with battlers, and only buys cheap superstars (Rosicky)or wunderkinds (Walcott, Reyes, Fab).
It could still end in tears.
You're all bullish now, but you weren't such happy chappies six months ago.

enki said...

most of arsenal fans are not english. arsenal has a huge following in africa(nigeria particularly) and internationally trail only man utd and liverpool in popularity. i should know as i travel the football mad africa on a regular basis in my job

Anonymous said...

Excuse me? But who are you to say how I was feeling six months ago? I felt then the same way then as I do now, that we have an extremely talented young side that is really going to blossom into something special. I still feel that now, only I think the Champions League will accelerate the development and I am even more excited about the team. These glory hunters do my nut in!

The Mee said...

Nice to find another Arsenal blogger on Blogspot.

www.themee.blogspot.com